Saturday, 19 February 2011

Thinking hurts.

For a considerable time, seems like for ever actually, I have been pondering some thoughts about the label  'Owner/ property relationships' . In the FL O/p group, for the sake of commonality, we define our group being for co-resident, 24/7, TPE, consensual non-consent slaves and owners. In principle, I have no real issue with this, but I do feel it leaves a lot of room for not only interpretation but also in relation to the extent of the power exchange.

Ever a person who is a walking contradiction, I dislike labels but also feel there needs to be a common understanding for the sake of discourse, and perhaps one label may not be sufficient to cover such a wide range. In the O/p group there are a very diverse range of O/p relationships. This is of course absolutely fine, as diversity is a good thing, we are all individuals and each of our relationships are unique to ourselves. But I do sometimes wonder if Owner/ property is actually the best label.

For a start, a person can own something but have limited or no control over it. The 'property' may be at the same location but there may be limited activity or no activity at all in relation to the power exchange. I keep asking myself different questions, but there is no absolute. Things like, if a person tells another they want to be their property and the other person accepts, if the owner never or rarely exerts any power over their property is an O/p relationship? Under the group definition as long as they were co-resident, 24/7 and agreed to the TPE, then it would fit, but would it actually be a power exchange relationship in anything other than name?

If a person is permitted a wide range of free will, are they in a TPE relationship? Or should it perhaps more accurately be described as a partial power exchange relationship?

If an owner, only ever requires their property to do things they either want to do or are comfortable with is this a TPE relationship ? Is it sufficient for there to be just the intent rather than the actual operation of the TPE?

Basically, if I was permitted to pretty much do as I please, to what extent would I be property, even if my owner was happy for this? Conversely, if a property does not do as it is told is it still in an O/p relationship or does it depend on the outcome eg whether they are either eventually forced into doing it or have to be disciplined for non compliance and then made to do it?

There are those who believe they are slaves even though they have no Master/ Mistress or anyone else influencing their lives, so how does this differ to property that might not be actively required to actually yield any control?

It is not a case of someone being slavier than someone else, it is more a case of defining the differences. It certainly seems to me that O/p has gone the same way as the original M/s and D/s definitions, ie they are now used on the internet to mean whatever anyone wants them to mean or are applied willy nilly by people, particularly the wannabees.

What seems to me to be a constant in any of the relationship types is the power exchange, at one end of the scale there is 'time' and 'extent' limited power exchange, such as a 'scene' through to relationships where there is no limit on time or extent of the power exchange.

The other factor which perhaps may influence the differences might be the extent of how much and how often a property is utilised against what would have been considered to be their chosen activities/ behaviours etc eg how much control is actually active, as opposed to a more passive type of PE.

I would think there might be some significant differences between the stresses, reactions, problems and physical strains placed on a property who is actively utilised and one in a more passive/less active role. If only 10% of time is spent on doing things a person might not like/ enjoy/ find difficult etc it might be easier to deal with the O/p relationship as opposed to someone who has greater percentage usage. Is that relevant?

Maybe, the key lies in defining the extent of the power exchange rather than the persons involved. If this was the case then at one end of the scale would be partial power exchange and at the other TPE where there is no limits on time, extent of the power exchange ie no limits and the power exchange is always active both in a physical and psychological context.

So I've raised myself a lot of questions, but come to no conclusions.

13 comments:

  1. I am among the first to question whether my Master and I are actually O/p until I go over and read the Master/slaves group and feel vaguely nauseous. The O/p group resonated a hell of a lot better. And if one wished she was allowed to get up off this princess pillow and one's wish was callously ignored... if an owner likes to own a princess? What does that make us? OOOH EPIPHANY ALERT!!! Perhaps we ARE Owner/princess.

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  2. You're not alone with thinking leading to questions. Many of my posts begin with a philosophical approach that just ends in questions lol.

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  3. @xantu

    Hey, are you me? The other day the Captain remarked "And yes, you are a bit of a pillow-sitter, because that's how I want you".

    Actually, the pillow-sitting is an interesting way for him to utilize me in a way I don't prefer. I would happily work myself to death without him enforcing his right to make me sit down and be treated nicely. I often wonder how that plays out in the semantics of TPE and O/p. If what the owner is using the property for is pleasant, does it count? Is it less right for us to identify as O/p because one of the things the Captain really enjoys using me for is to spoil me?

    I dunno.

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  4. Hi Tb,

    Here in the USA we tried to resolve the slave as property issue back in the 19th Century by concluding that human beings couldn't actually be property without having their inalienable rights trampled on. Now, for our own personal reasons we explore the power dynamic and use a pirated vocabulary to talk about it.

    I don't mean for this to sound flippant but I think you're thinking too much. We borrow all these terms from a now illegal slave culture. Mammy was the property of Scarlett O'Hara's father. I don't think anyone back then worried about the fine points. A certain group of people were considered property and the owners did what they chose to do with the investment they made. But the fundamental fact, supported by then existing laws, was that slaves were property.

    What we do now is completely different. It is consensual and usually has a powerful erotic component. We do it to fulfill our own inner longings, whatever they are, and if we are satisfied we stay put and if we're not we move on. That's not slavery.

    Frankly, if you're both happy that's what matters. I don't think we'll ever be able to reach consensus on the different labels we use to discuss these ideas, especially given that our relationships are dynamic, always changing. Nonetheless, I understand and share your frustration with labels.

    Best,

    scott
    Mrs. Kelly's Playhouse

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  5. If your Owner wants to shower you with presents, do all the work for you, pamper you, give you only your favourite types of play, bring home men/women for you to have fun with etc. then they have every right to do so. They get to make that decision. if you state that ownership requires that you be forced to do things that you don't like, then suddenly you're stripping your owner of power and instead assigning it to a stereotype and/or and assumption / expectation in your mind. it certainly is not the job of your owner to deliver slavery to you according to your fantasies / expectations.

    that said, often times for both parties, there can be a strong need to test the PE, it's all too easy to obey when it's something you want to do. it's good to feel the control, to be forced to do something you really don't want to do, because it proves that you really do have to do it, that you really don't have any control, but the force certainly doesn't need to be maintained 24/7 for the PE to exist. The simple fact is N that regardless of what might be going on in your life, no matter how much autonomy you might have been granted, that even if MT is too sick to stand over you with a cane, even if you're away from each other for a while. you are Her property, you belong to her and you always will do until either one of you dies or she lets you go. She might not have ordered you to do anything in months, but if she tells you to jump, you will do, you know that you have to obey whatever order is given, and you know that if you don't you'll be punished. She might be in a weakened state, she might tell you you've had your privileges revoked but not be able to enforce it, you might even be stupid enough to run amok, and have fun and damn the consequences, but my god will you be sorry about it sooner or later, because you know full well that eventually you'll have to face the consequences, there is no escaping it. You could even decide you don't want to be hers any more and run off to vegas, but it will never feel right to you, you will know that you are still hers and that you are disobeying. and if you don't go home with your tail between your legs, she'll probably come find you. and then she'll punish you, because you don't get to decide you aren't hers any more.

    and that IMHO makes you property.

    P.S. Personally I actually really struggle with being treated well, being spoiled does make me uncomfortable and like it's somehow un-slave-like, i have to live with it tho, because she likes dishing out kindness nearly as much as she enjoys dishing out suffering.

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  6. Just to reassure everyone, I am not having any angst it is just my abstract musings on the subject.

    @xantu and biddable Ha ! my princess pillow has wheels and ducati written on the sides, I am not spoiled :)

    @ scott, I like to think about things sometimes, it helps me to understand where I am. As a point of interest, for many people in the O/p group, leaving is not an option for property. This was the subject of quite a lot of discussion.

    Best wishes N

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  7. Hi scott,

    there's a link here to a thread where N discussed his inability to leave, which you may find interesting
    http://fetlife.com/groups/8185/group_posts/1028152

    MT

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  8. @N

    Not spoiled? She lets you carry on a torrid affair with Cati and lavish her with presents and you're not spoiled? Pffft.

    Granted, you're not as spoiled as Cati... :D

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  9. @ Bidds & xantu

    My boy-Princess (because Prince sounds less fluffy) is far more Princessed than I will ever be. I do not have a pillow with wheels (other than 'his') or even a fancy schmancy expensive pillow for the bed like he does ;)

    *Sniff*

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  10. Hi Ms. Sparkles,

    Thanks for the link. That helps me understand his thinking/feeling better.

    Hi N,

    I understand liking to think. I suffer the same condition. Philosophers have parsed meanings in pursuit of perfecting language as a tool of discourse for thousands of years. We humans still manage to misunderstand each other on a regular basis.

    What I was trying to convey in my previous comment was that the state of being property is a condition separate from how it is used. I don't think that how it is used defines it as being owned or not.

    Best,

    scott
    Mrs. Kelly's Playhouse

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  11. Hi scott, hope the link helped a little. like many things, I do not quite understand the not being able to leave, but it is something that just 'is'.

    I understand what you mean about the state of being property, MT shares your view and I understand the concept and agree with the thinking. My dilemma relates to 'how' use is made and the impact/effect of that use.

    If a property is used extensively and made to evolve from where it was originally, then the stresses/strains and results from all that use will be different from a property that is either not used or has little such usage and/or does not undergo any evolution.

    As a simple example, I will react very positively to being allowed to do whatever I like but may react very negatively to being made to do something I really do not wish to do.
    Both are valid, but both are different.

    Having discussed this with MT, I have probably miscommunicated my point by defining the state of being, rather than the function.

    Simply, all may be property but it is the usage that varies, and this usage will cause different effects on the property.

    Hope that makes some sense, best wishes N

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  12. @ Bidds, I hadn't seen your last comment when I posted re Cati. Great minds think alike ;)

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  13. Hi N,

    I can't argue with that. That's true.

    Best,

    scott
    Mrs. Kelly's Playhouse

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